Through Everything, God Still With Us To Help Us

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Re: Susan Olmsted’s letter (Nov. 27), I was astounded it was written by a kid, and more astounded at the ignorant and savage attacks on her by secular fundamentalist fanatics who were worst than Pat Robertson. Susan was right on nearly every count.

Science is not about “truth,” but a strictly mechanical description of the operation of the natural world. Naturalistic evolution has never been observed and has failed all attempts to reproduce in a laboratory and is without a shred of verifiable scientific proof.

It’s irrational to believe life began without a creator. To quote Dr. Gerald Schroeder of MIT, “Order never arises from disorder spontaneously. There must be a guide to the system.” Dr. Duffy knows all of this, but chose to abuse science to promote his personal beliefs. He can argue with Dr. Schroeder at http://www.geraldschroeder.com.

The National Academy of Sciences publication Science and Creationism (1999) stated that “Scientists, like many others, are touched with awe at the order and complexity of nature. Indeed, many scientists are deeply religious…” They’re religious atheists with pantheistic environmentalism the most popular belief system followed by socialism.

Evolution is a process. It took billions of years for single-cell life to make the world habitable. Then 600 million years ago the “sudden” Cambrian explosion laid the groundwork for all life today. Fossils are the remnants of the process. Humans didn’t evolve from apes, Neanderthals were human, and anything beyond that are mostly fragments of questionable origin.

In all of this God is still with us today. God can speak through the Bible and I don’t have all the answers by far. But God doesn’t belong in a science class.

The scientific method must be properly taught and the flaws of naturalistic evolution must be presented. Stop using science to undermine God to promote atheistic’ pseudo-religions. Atheists are not evil people and I’d suggest looking into the writings of the Eastern Orthodox Church and the works of Dr. Schroeder.

Lewis Loflin
Bristol, Va.

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Flag Comment Posted by dadw5boys on January 09, 2009 at 7:50 pm

Ok what is his email address I know at least 60 people who are struggling to heat their homes.
Or maybe God will talk to the people who own the refinerys out west that are shutting them down to drive up the price and get them to wait till spring so people who have lost their jobs can heat their homes this winter.
Maybe God and get the credit card companys to no be so greedy and stop the 22 day billing cycyles and go back to 30 day cycles.
I have been paying the electric bill for 3 of my neighbors may God would get a few more people to help their neighbors.
We all know Pat Robinson or any of the other preachers who got your money won’t be helping.

Flag Comment Posted by abb3w on January 07, 2009 at 1:59 pm

I would agree with Lewis Loflin in two details. First, that the scientific method should be properly taught. I consider this highlighted by his own apparent failure to have learned what it is, what it assumes, what it does not assume but rather infers from the assumptions, and what it neither assumes nor infers.

Science refers to the process of gathering evidence, forming conjectures about the evidence, developing a formal hypothesis which indicates how the current evidence may be described under the conjecture, competitive testing of all candidate hypotheses under a formal criterion for probable correctness, and also sometimes refers to the body of hypotheses testing best thereby and which thereafter are referred to as “Theories”.

Science is based on the primary premises of formal logic’s validity (EG, via the Robbins Axioms and the Existential-Universal relation) for inference between propositions, Mathematics (the self-consistent joint affirmation of the Axioms of Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory), and that Reality is Relatable to Evidence. While there are other commonly used principles, such as cause-and-effect and naturalism, they are not primary premises, but secondary provisional inferences, usually only approximations, and subject to refutation.

The formal criterion underlying the methodology of science is a mathematically rigorous version of Occam’s Razor, derivable from the primary premises. In essence, the description most probably correct is that which can completely convey all details about the data most concisely. Details, for the curious, are found papers by Wallace and Dowe (doi:10.1093/comjnl/42.4.270) and by Vitanyi and Li (doi:10.1109/18.825807).

The quote by Dr. Schroeder is an oversimplification of what the Second Law of Thermodynamics actually states. Order never arises from disorder spontaneously in a CLOSED system; however, in multiple systems where there is mass-energy flow (aka, open system), order may flow from one region to another. A mundane example of this is easily seen with a glass of ice water on a humid day: the condensation on the outside of the glass from vapor to liquid represents an increase in its order, as the heat from the outside system of surrounding air goes into the system of the glass. Similarly, earth’s Biosphere is not a closed system, but receives a continuing flow of energy from the sun (much eventually re-radiated at a lower black-body temperature and thus higher entropy level).

A recent paper by Daniel Styer of Oberlin College (doi:10.1119/1.2973046) does the mathematical analysis for the case of our biosphere, and shows the order of Earth’s species is abundantly sustained. Another paper by Ville R. I. Kaila and Arto Annila of the University of Helsinki (doi:10.1098/rspa.2008.0178) in fact mathematically derives the principle of competitive selection of variations from the Second Law open-system expression. Our universe is one where life and other self-replicating systems are manifestly possible to exist, where the products of one polymerization reaction (such as enzymes) can catalyze the formation of the ingredient monomers or other polymers of smaller, equal, or greater size (Robinson et al, doi:10.1039/a803602k), and where such monomers appear to be produced naturally under conditions such as are understood to have existed on the early earth (Miller and Urey doi:10.1126/science.130.3370.245 and Johnson et al. doi:10.1126/science.1161527). Given such conditions, it is mathematically suggested (Nowak and Ohtsuki, doi:10.1073/pnas.0806714105) that there can be a natural tendency for self-replicating systems to arise “spontaneously”. As such, believing life could begin on our world without a creator is not irrational, for howsoever unintuitive this conclusion, the details of the evidence indeed rationally supports the inference.

Mr. Loflin makes the blank assertion that “Humans didn’t evolve from apes”; however, he offers no evidence in support. I would challenge him to provide a explanation (better under the criterion used by science) for the near-total correspondence between human DNA and that of the other primates, including in particular the correspondence between human chromosome 2 to the chimpanzee chromosomes 2p and 2q, consistent with a chromosome fusion in the human lineage from a mutual ancestor even to inclusion of a block of telomeres (normally only found at endpoints) centrally placed in that human chromosome. (The curious may visit tinyurl.com/9wx43x for more details.)

As to whether God belongs in a science class, I would agree the answer is no, but perhaps with different reasoning than Mr. Loflin. Under the criterion used by science, the conjecture of God while not precluded is also not supported. To include God in the science curriculum without mention of this would seem (to my non-lawyer eyes) a gross violation of the Establishment clause of the First Amendment under the test from Lemon v. Kurtzman. Contrariwise, specifically mentioning it for the purpose of indicating it is unsupported would appear an equivalent violation of the Free Exercise clause under the Lemon test. While teachers should be trained to expect such questions to arise, they response should be that Science and Religion provide different ways for looking at the world, and that since each Religion has its own explanation for the extent and significance of the differences, students should ask their parents and/or their pastors (or equivalent) for the explanation of their own creed.

Flag Comment Posted by victorg423 on January 07, 2009 at 9:52 am

I forgot to include in previous postings this link, “Why Belief Isn’t That Different for Atheists or Religious People”, for the more erudite readers.

http://www.alternet.org/story/117490/why_belief_isn’t_that_different_for_atheists_or_religious_people/?page=entire

Flag Comment Posted by victorg423 on January 07, 2009 at 8:56 am

Many individuals obviously find solace in some personification of ideals, some personification that you can call mother nature or jesus or buddah or allah or zeus or god or whatever.  The personifications are manifestations of ‘truth’ to those having some form of faith or the other.  The personifications help the faithful deal with their respective mortality, or calamity, or difficult situations or whatever.
But if these personifications represented reality, they would all be identical.  They’re obviously not identical.  People from one faith sometimes even want to kill those with other faiths.  All these people with faith in different personifications claim that they know the ‘truth’.  The problem arises when anyone tries to force his subjective version of ‘truth’ on everybody else, claiming that their ‘truth’ is part of objective reality.  When in fact their ‘truth’ is no more real than the easter bunny or santa claus.
But if personifications provide solace to you, that’s a good thing.  As long as you don’t revert to being a sanctimonious totalitarian wingnut and try to force your beliefs on others pretending you are enlightened or something.

Flag Comment Posted by victorg423 on January 07, 2009 at 8:37 am

Now Dr. Schroeder, who got his doctorate degree over 40 years ago, is an orthodox Jewish person who is more interested in promoting his religious beliefs than being a serious researcher. 
I don’t know who the Dr. Duffy is that is accused of “abusing science’, whatever that means to the reactionary Loflin, because Loflin fails to provide a first name. 
Regarding evolution though, no scholar of evolution has ever said that man evolved from apes.  That retort is rather part of the drivel that the superstitious wingnuts spout.  Evolution scholars suggest, based on all the evidence, that both men and ape had some common ancestor.

Flag Comment Posted by victorg423 on January 07, 2009 at 8:21 am

Science is indeed not about ‘truth’.  Like beauty, ‘truth’ is in the eye of the beholder.  Science is about reality.  Evolution is part of reality.  The fact that you cannot reproduce it in some laboratory is totally irrelevant.  You cannot create gravity in a laboratory, but nevertheless gravity is a part of reality.
People used to think that the sun literally ‘rose’ in the morning, having faith in the notion that the sun was going around the earth.  This fallacy was ‘truth’ to these people, especially the religious rulers.
People could ‘see’ the earth rise every morning.  The notion that the sun was going around the earth was NOT part of reality though.

Flag Comment Posted by Stuckhere on January 07, 2009 at 5:24 am

When my children go to school, I’ll thank the religious right wing theocrats for NOT trying to turn OUR public school systems into indoctrination centers.

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