David Crockett Students Are Upset Over Confederate Flag Issue
AP
Students and parents at one Tri-Cities school don’t agree with a decision by the school to not allow any t-shirts, flags or other items with the rebel flag symbol on it. SOUND OFF: Is this infringing on students’ freedom of speech? Were the flags being used to pay tribute or intimidate fellow students?
Published: November 14, 2008
Updated: November 14, 2008
Controversy is swirling at one high school in the Tri-Cities. Several viewers contacted News Channel 11 asking why the rebel flag had been from David Crockett High School.
“They are trying to make them take the stickers off their cars and everything,“
said Devon Lewis, student.
Parents also have issue with the new rule.
“I believe that people should be able to fly the flags they like to fly without everybody getting their feelings hurt,“ said Shawn Berry, parent.
Students said they were told by the school on Wednesday that the rebel flag or t-shirts and other items with the rebel flag on it will not be allowed at the school. Lewis said that students were bringing the rebel flag to school in honor of fellow student Michael Payne who recently died after an ATV accident.
Lewis also told us that several fights broke out at the school between white and Hispanic students, and then the announcement was made to not allow the rebel flag.
“I don’t believe it’s a racial issue at all, it’s just a tribute to Michael,“ Lewis said.
Officials with Washington County Schools did acknowledge Crockett’s principal is not allowing the rebel flag symbol at school.
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ccsunflower did you not read my post where I explained that all of East Tennessee were not loyal to the union. If not, please read it and stop stating that as a fact. As a matter of a fact, my great-great grandfather from East Tennessee (Sullivan County) was a confederate soldier. Many of the people that fought for the southern cause were not cotton growers nor were they slave owners. Why would all those non-slave owners volunteer for a war about slavery? As I recall, you said you have lived here MOST of your life, so don’t refer to people’s heritige from here as “our heritige”.
Fort Sumter was “arranged” by Lincoln. Indeed, he even sent a “thank you letter” to the commander of the vessel that was bringing supplies and reinforcements for causing the South to “fire the first shot” and thus supposedly give him the excuse to wage war.
Secondly, slavery was dying in the South. Actually, many large planters were starting to look seriously at the way Northern industrialists treated THEIR workers and discovered that it was a much more economical arrangement. Contrary to popular belief, slavery did not provide FREE labor. Slaves had to be clothed, housed, fed and cared for. A book of the name of slaves found in the Gamble Plantation in Florida shows a slave of 100 years of age. Now, how much work could a 100 year old slave DO? Yet, that slave was still fed, housed, clothed and obviously cared for sufficiently for him or her to reach that venerable age.
On the other hand, in the North, the so-called “wage slave” was a “throw away” item. If he got sick, he was fired; there were tens and even hundreds of thousands of immigrants getting off the boat who would gladly take his place. His pay was low, his working conditions usually horrendous. He didn’t earn enough for decent housing, food and clothing for himself, never mind his family. Women worked all hours as did children - and the Northern moguls made obscene profits from their own brand of “slavery”. There were laws on the books in the South about the treatment of slaves albeit they were disobeyed (like every other law), but there were no laws in the North demanding that industrialists pay a living wage to their workers or provide safe working conditions.
In fact, there had been a thriving abolitionist movement in the South before radical abolitionists in the North (and especially the Northeast) began to send “teachers and preachers” south to teach and preach “servile insurrection” to the slaves, encouraging them to armed uprising of the type committed by Nat Turner which resulted in the murder of many whites - including women and children - who were NOT slave owners. In fact, John Brown’s attack (after he had murdered a black family and a free black man in Harper’s Ferry) was an effort to start just such an insurrection in Virginia. That’s why he captured a federal armory. He expected the local blacks to flock to his banner and begin the slaughter. He hadn’t sufficient men to even defend himself and when the blacks didn’t come, he was lost. Yes, slavery was a very large reason for the war, but not in the way most people believe. Southerners were angered and frightened by what they perceived (correctly) as Northern efforts to cause a war between blacks and whites. And when this came about, the Southern abolitionist movement was abandoned for obvious reasons.
I admit that little of this is known because NONE of it is taught as history. But this information is available. As for Northern involvement in slavery, there is an excellent book written by three Connecticut journalists entitled “Complicity: How the North Promoted, Prolonged and Profited from Slavery” by Anne Farrow, Joel Lang and Jenifer Frank. It is a real “eye-opener” for those who think that the blame for slavery is the South’s alone.
Lady Val you are correct that secession was legal, and that slavery was not illegal, but I personally didn’t mention anything about feelings, nor did I suggest that the civil war was fought to end slavery or that Lincoln was a hero. That seems like a strawman type of argument on your behalf. At any rate, I retract my statement about Karl Marx, he was not an idiot ( by the way, I never said the words “stupid” or “fool”) ; however I fail to see any relevance that he or his ideas have regarding the American civil war. But since you brought him into the discussion to strengthen your position, I pulled up several of his articles and came across his statement that the “civil war was a mere tariff war”. My interpretation is quite different from yours, because in the following paragraphs of that particular article, he went on to further discuss the complexities of the war. He stated that at first glance it might seem that way to the Brits, but there was more to it than just that. By the way, for a while people in England thought the war was started by the North, and that was just wrong. After the confederate bombardment at Ft. Sumter, Marx himself acknowledged that it was a conflict of “slavery versus free labor” and a “war of Southern conquest in order to spread and perpetuate slavery”. Also, he dismissed the confederate states as a battle slogan rather than a country of its own.
Sure, the south provided the raw materials to northern industries; northern industries were not taxed for those materials but the south was taxed for the tangible goods they purchased from these industries. That’s a legitimate reason for tension, but taxes were not the cause of the war! Granted, the war was not fought as a heroic plight to end slavery, why would the south initiate the war to end slavery? The Confederacy wanted more states to override the power of the union. They wanted to keep their slaves to maintain their plantation economy. So yes it was about money to some degree, but the civil war was about the continuity of slave ownership. I do not see that cause as noble. Opposition to the confederate flag is not ignorance, not only is that view extremely one sided, but it is also ridiculously racist. If your ancestors were slaves you would see that flag in an entirely different light. And by the way, we weren’t confederate here in East Tennessee so chances are your forefathers weren’t rebels therefore the flag is not our heritage.
Look, I’m 67 years old and I can tell you that that particular viewpoint has been tried. Well, it’s only in this place that people cannot freely express themselves; so what? Well, it’s only in that place that they can’t freely express themselves. There are still plenty of OTHER places in which they can do so. Guess what? We’re running out of places in which we CAN freely express ourselves!
You homeschool? For how much longer, I wonder. Already some states as well as the federal government are working towards stopping that particular means of keeping children out of the hands of Big Brother. One social worker in I can’t remember which state now is demanding “psychological testing” of all homeschooled children. Of course, when they don’t respond according to the government’s indoctrination, you as a parent might not only lose the right to homeschool, you might lose your CHILDREN! It’s coming! Not today, maybe not tomorrow or next month, but it’s coming.
There simply cannot be anymore capitulation on the part of Americans to political correctness censorship. We are already past the point of no return, in my opinion. Appeasement by good folks has only led to more demands by the state. What happens when there is no other place we can go? What then??
Robin. I have to say that you are incorrect in saying that prayer was removed from schools. Prayer has not been removed from schools. All of the schools that I am aware of have a moment of silence every morning and every student in that school is allowed to pray to whatever or whomever they wish at that time. No child is told they cannot, it is welcomed. It is a moment that they are free to do what they wish to themselves. They are not stopped from bowing their heads at their lunch table and saying a prayer. We do live in a country that I am proud to say is diverse and we must be all accepting of every person that lives here. Not everyone shares your religious beliefs therefore should not be forced to pray to your specific God. I am a Christian but through my faith I know I must be accepting and tolerant of those who are not. It is not my place to judge them. Another point that I think you are wrong on is that the absence of God in our schools is why things are so bad. The reason (I believe) that things are what they are is because their is a lack of good parenting, lack of any religion at home and a lack of good justice systems to deal with juvenile offenders. My child was punished more for something at school a few years ago because he had a good home life. Another student did the same thing he did and was not punished at all because he has a questionable home life. I was actually told this by the principal. So, this child already has it in his head that because he doesnt have a great home life he is not held to the same standards as those that have good parents at home. Discipline, respect and religion come from the home. It is not the school systems responsibility to instill values in your child. That is the parents job. It is their job offer a suitable education to your child. Parents need to take responsibility for what their children become. It is up to us to mold our children into responsible law abiding compassionate adults, not the school system. I am happy for you that you want to home school your children and have the ability to do so, but keep in mind, these children will some day have to enter this crazy unsheltered world with all the people that they were not allowed to go to school with. I am not knocking home schooling at all, it is great for some.
I don’t even think this whole mess is even about the flag anymore. IT’s gone way past that. Listen people, if these kids can’t wear their ‘flag shirts’ 0r whatever AT SCHOOL~ what’s the big deal ? They can still wear their shirts out of school. IT’s no even really the scools business what’s on a students car
like stickers or what-not.People didn’t make this big of a fuss about taking prayers out of school, isn’t having God in our public schools more important then weather or not they are allowed to portray the Confederate flag or not ? They take God out of school and that is accepted, but they want to mess with the flag and look at the attention this one subject has gotten. It’s good to stand up for what’s right, just be sure you’re fighting for the right things.
I thank God for homeschool ~ My kids aren’t in this messed up public school system anymore. I decided when God was no longer welcome in school then neither were my children. No wonder there is so much violence among our children, in our schools. They are standing up for what they believe but they aren’t fighting for God, they are fighting for a flag !!!!! Flags aren’t needed at school but without God~ schools will remain a battle ground for our children.
Ben, you are showing your ignorance, I fear.
It is not the FLAG that is the problem. The object being censored could be a book (like the Bible, for instance) or a symbol (like the Cross, for instance) or anything that has some meaning to some people. It is not the OBJECT that is being censored, but the censorship itself.
We at least used to live in what we called a “free country” in which the expression of ideas was not only tolerated but encourage. That is long gone with the institution of the “political correctness” movement which labels as “hate speech” anything that flies in the face of accepted - i.e. liberal - orthodoxy.
You say you are a Christian, well then you should be in the forefront of this battle because no group has been so “censored” by political correctness as Christians.
Forget the flag - which is only the object of the tactic - and consider the TACTIC - which is censorship, something expressly forbidden by the Constitution.
It is irrelevant to make arguments about what people “feel” or what they “felt” at the time. The only relevant points are those regarding what was - and was not - legal. In that instance, the simple facts are this:
1. Secession was legal.
2. Slavery was legal.
3. An assault upon a sovereign state or states by the federal government was ILLEGAL.
The war which resulted from that illegal act killed over 650,000 men and that does not take into account the countless thousands - mostly non-combatants - who died as a result of what we today call “collateral damage”. Every other nation in the world ended slavery without fighting a war (except, of course, in Africa where the institution remains to this day). There was no need to fight this war to end slavery, nor was it a war to end slavery. Lincoln was more than ready to accept slavery to keep the “cash cow” South in the Union.
As for Karl Marx: I hate his ideology, but only an idiot would consider him stupid or a fool. Marx was “dead on” when he recognized the American War of Secession as a war initiated by taxes and by a Northern (Union) attempt to amass power in the central government at the expense of the State and the People. If anyone doubts that, let him look at the power of today’s federal government and the impotence of the States and the People. Marx was right in both his judgment of the nature of the war and his view of where Lincoln wanted to take - and DID take - the nation.
Finally, to equate symbols of the “gangsta” culture with the symbols of a noble cause (the cause of independence and freedom from tyranny) is itself offensive. Those who through ignorance are offended by the battle flag and other symbols of the Confederacy and Southern heritage have no right to impose their ignorance on the rest of us no matter how “sincere” they are. Sincerity does not mean either accuracy or legitimacy. One can be “sincerely wrong”.
I wonder if the school officials know one of Davy Crockett’s relatives fought for the South. There was a grave marker dedication for Andrew Crockett on March 15 this year, photos can be seen here: http://www.flatfenders.com/scv/Camp Maneuvers2.htm
There are a lot of Crockett descendants around Buna, Texas. In the speeches given at the dedication, it was told that Andrew was one of a group of soldiers who had been in the Confederate Hospital in Houston and were on their way home when they were stricken with yellow fever and died, then were buried in unmarked graves near Dayton.
For the most part ccsunfower and Scamper, you two are correct about East Tennessee being mostly, and I emphasize “mostly” Union sympathizers, however although much of East Tennessee remained loyal to the Union during the Civil War, Democratic Sullivan County nicknamed “Little Confederacy” voted in favor of secession. Scamper, one of those bridge burnings you speak of happened in a little town called Zollicoffer three times. The first time was when a group of Union men from Carter County set fire to the bridge. Formally called Union City for the railroad, it was renamed Zollicoffer in honor of the first general to die for the southern cause, Confederate Brigadier General Felix Zollicoffer. This little town is the current day Bluff City. ccsunflower I never said the war was solely about states rights. I said it was for many reasons, including but not limited to states rights, high tariffs, and the distribution of tax dollars to build railroads, roads and bridges solely for the promotion of the industrial north’s domestic trade. For those of you that keep referring to the Confederate Battle Flag as “The Rebel Flag” please stop trying to defend it if you have no more respect for it than that.
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